The Grit & Grace Leadership Podcast

Finding Your Voice: Emm Gryner on Needs, Values, and Expressing Your True Self

• Jen Kelly • Season 2 • Episode 14

Share episode

Have you ever stood in awe of someone who commands a room with their powerful voice? Join us in this inspiring episode as we sit down with three-time JUNO Award-nominated recording artist Emm Gryner. With over twenty albums to her name, she’s toured the world both as a solo artist and with the legendary David Bowie. Emm has also appeared on albums by Def Leppard and Rob Zombie, and co-written with Jann Arden.

In this episode, we delve into how our voice represents our inner truths and values. Discover how to access confidence through your voice, speak your needs, and express your true self.

Emm's story is a testament to the power of resilience, reinvention, and authentic self-expression. Whether you’re an aspiring artist, a seasoned professional, or simply seeking to find your voice, this episode provides actionable insights and inspiration.


Learn more about Emm Gryner




For us for actionable tools & tips for your leadership journey
Instagram @Grit.Grace.Podcast
Follow our LinkedIn Page
Website: www.thegritandgrace.co


Jen:

Today I sit down with three-time Juno Award-nominated recording artist, em Griner.

Emm:

Even when I was singing with David Bowie, I was still navigating my voice. But that is what you have to do. You can take the lessons, but you got to get out there and do it too. I just happen to be doing it with a major rock legend.

Jen:

She's recorded over 20 albums and toured the world as a solo artist and with David Bowie. M Greiner's story is truly inspiring. In this episode, discover how to access confidence through your voice, speak your needs and express your true self. Let's dive in. I am thrilled to be speaking with M Greiner, a three-time Juno Award nominated recording artist. I've been deep in your book for the better part of a week. Your book is the Healing Power of Singing. Raise your Voice, change your Life. What Touring with David Bowie, single Parenting and Ditching the Music Business Taught Me in 25 Easy Steps and lots of tips in there that we will be talking about. If you go back to some of the earlier lessons learned as an artist, what were some of those pivotal moments for you that really shaped your trajectory?

Emm:

First of all, thanks for having me. I'm really happy to be here. I think that the opportunity to be creative as a young person probably shaped a lot, and my parents, they ran their own newspaper out of our basement, so it was this great glimpse of entrepreneurs working, being creative, making money. So, yeah, those things really shaped the decisions I made towards. You know, like starting a demo on my own and like put a band together on my own. I never felt worried about doing those things because I felt like it would always work out.

Jen:

So they were obviously demonstrating and role modeling, but were they equally encouraging you to take those risks and think outside the box?

Emm:

They weren't encouraging in the way that maybe, like a teacher, would be encouraging, yeah, but there was an environment created where we could be creative. Yeah, we lived in the country. There was literally nothing to do and, I think, out of necessity, um, just writing songs, playing instruments. It became something that they you know, they they did encourage. I do remember there being a point, though, when it started to get close to the end of high school, where I think there was a little bit of trepidation over. You know, her music is now going to be what she puts her whole life into right. Yeah, and I think, with parents, they need to see a magazine cover, an award nomination mine anyway they needed to see that the world would embrace what I was doing before they could completely get on board.

Jen:

I know that a lot of artists like they can feel that they are an artist inside of them. Did you identify as a vocal artist like that early as well, like you just knew sing the songs I was writing.

Emm:

So singing has been like this thing that I'm like, oh man, I know I can't sing like Tina Turner or whoever, so what do I do to get a little bit closer to that? So I took vocal lessons, Even when I was singing with David Bowie. I wasn't really at the top of my game Like I. I remember having kind of a lot of just, I was still navigating my voice, but that is what you have to do. It's like you can take the lessons, but you got to get out there and do it too. So I just happened to be doing it with a major rock legend.

Jen:

Yeah, when you got that gig, was there a difference in that moment with how you saw yourself? Or was it just like the world telling you that, hey, you made it. And you, you've always kind of felt like you were confident, naturally.

Emm:

I think that Bowie experience was twofold. So I mean, I grew up listening to Duran Duran. Um, all those British bands that listened to Bowie right.

Emm:

So to actually sing with him. It definitely satisfied this creative part of me. But when you're in your 20s, ego is super running the show. So I remember kind of coming out of that experience feeling like, okay, by then I had been dropped from a major label. No Canadian record label would like look at me and I was sort of like you know, okay, well, I didn't get this, but I got this and it's pretty awesome and everyone wants to talk to me about it. I also think that it gave me permission to be braver. So the ego is not like totally it's not a horrible thing, it's like braver. So the ego is not like totally it's not a horrible thing, it's like it can be a vehicle, right, yeah. It definitely gave me some energy to say like, hey, I am a singer, right, even if I wasn't quite there yet getting the permission to to step into that role. So for me it was Bowie, but for anyone else it could be a new job or a new way of looking at something or you know, just kind of an awakening.

Jen:

When you're not an artist, you might be chasing the job, the title, the role. There's been a ton of layoffs that have that have happened, so it's like who are you without the blank, and so I just feel like that's the work. When you were that young, collaborating with artists like that, did you find that it was easy and natural for you to authentically be creative, or were you trying to appease and adjust a little bit along the way?

Emm:

I was completely appeasing and adjusting. There were certainly times where I would create something or write something that felt really great, really energizing. But I am a sponge, so the people around me, the environment, they really influence what I do and I'm sure this resonates with a lot of people listening. Yeah, you know the problem with that.

Emm:

Sometimes, when you're younger and in my situation, if you're not quite cemented in what you stand for, what your values are and I know we're going to talk about values, yes, we are you can be really easily swayed, and it's not your fault, it's just you know you haven't had the life experience, you haven't figured out where you stand. You experience you haven't figured out where you stand. You're sort of chasing a dangling carrot and someone's going to help you get there, and I think a lot of young artists find themselves in that situation, right. So, yeah, those things get in the way of finding out who you are and yeah, so I do think the more mentors we can have, yeah, as women, the better, like, if you go back and you think, hey, this was the moment, creatively, with my voice, I really stepped into it and what was the switch?

Jen:

Like what was Last year.

Emm:

Still finding it yeah.

Jen:

I'm just curious, because what's the lesson in like flipping that switch so people can get there faster?

Emm:

I would just have loved to have gotten there faster, for myself, for myself, I'm with you, we don't need to spend that time. So I think what it is is maybe getting to know yourself a little bit sooner. And so what does that look like? I do think that the clearer you can be on what's informing your actions right so what's driving the bus. So in my situation, I've always had the need to be heard right so at any cost almost, and that stems back from really not knowing myself very well in a lot of like childhood stuff. So, like, could someone uncover that a little bit sooner, maybe?

Jen:

maybe it's just about being around people who can illuminate that path for you and they're not imposing their own kind of agenda on you, which happens so much to young artists, young entrepreneurs, you know much to young artists, young entrepreneurs, you know, and when you were at that early stage in creating songs for yourself and collaborating with other established artists, did they demonstrate anything that you have then carried forward in how you would work with a young artist today?

Emm:

Absolutely. You don't sing with David Bowie and not learn anything. Yeah, there was an air of professionalism with him and I think when someone has achieved so much, they're not trying to prove themselves anymore, right? So a lot of people are really caught up in the optics of success. So, you know, I got to make it look like I'm doing really well. He had done very well, right? So there was no like part of him that was trying to impress anyone anymore and because of that there was just the veil pulled back on his process, so very driven by curiosity.

Emm:

He was very professional, like I said. So if there was something wrong in a situation I think this can apply to anyone who's running a company you know, just stop, Okay, something's not working. Well, just stop, take a minute, ask the questions that need to be asked, Take care of the people who are involved, right, and just sort of see the lay of the land so I really learned that from him. And just sort of see the lay of the land. So I really learned that from him. And also that fame is just kind of a shit show.

Emm:

It was interesting to see him walk around New York and just sort of be done with people approaching him and to see that the fire in him was really about creating and curiosity and like the next album and the work. So I'm trying to just share what I know with people who are open to it. So sometimes that's a young artist who you know lacks the confidence to use their voice. Sometimes it's someone in a corporate setting who wants to bring their voice forward, learn to be a better speaker, sort of work with executive presence. But what I noticed is that people take their voice for granted.

Emm:

Oh really yeah. It's not like an instrument like a guitar or drum kit or whatever where you can see it, take pictures of it, like, shine it up. For that reason, then it's on us, and then we have so many insecurities about it we don't really understand how it works. We kind of think if our voice is one way, then it's that way forever. Yeah. And we also don't realize that it changes as we change. So just like you're not in the same mood every day, your voice isn't going to be the same every day. So I think bringing some acceptance to the voice is really important, and also just knowing that you can learn a few tips that could change the game for you.

Jen:

When you see people unlock that like, what's the outcome?

Emm:

It's really awesome because I do see so many people unlock it. It really comes down to learning how to breathe. We did this as babies. We used our voice properly when we were babies. Anyone who's been on a plane has heard a baby cry, and it's not always a feeling, but there's a clue in that that the body's working the way that it technically was meant to work. A baby would be unconsciously using their diaphragm to make the loudest sound, so over time, we've stopped using it, because we need to be quiet in school and we need to be cooperative and this is really important for women, because we are constantly judged for being loud, for using our voice In order to embrace it. You just have to learn the physiology of how it works. So that's you know. You can go on YouTube and look up diaphragmatic breathing and just start doing it.

Jen:

Yeah, I'm just imagining being able to take a moment maybe you're in a meeting, maybe you're. You're noticing that you're adjusting your style, You're not speaking fully, You're not expressing your ideas Just being able to stop, breathe deeply let go of those voices and then kind of come forward as though you know we're in the vocal booth in the meeting room.

Emm:

It takes practice though.

Jen:

Yeah, it really does, yeah, and not fearing the response that's coming on the other side, yes, which I'm imagining as an artist is like how people would critique the song, or like you know what I mean Just that feedback and being so protective of your heart.

Emm:

That's a really good point, and I think that the voice is a mirror to who we are.

Jen:

Yeah.

Emm:

So if we are feeling a little sheepish with our voice, there's probably something else inside, right, that's where we're a little bit fearful to bring forward. So through practice, through repeated lessons, through just having the environment to use your voice in front of another person which is really scary you simply get better and then that feeds your confidence, and then your confidence feeds your voice. It's like a loop. Yeah Right.

Jen:

And when you're teaching people the executive presence like is that the practice that they go through when they're just trying to be influential in the room? Like what would be the things people are working on in that, in that moment to have more executive presence, it all comes back to breath and the voice, though, because we don't consider them as important pieces of our day to day.

Emm:

Then we're kind of going around unconsciously doing things and then wondering oh why did I lose my voice in that talk?

Jen:

Yeah, and I've been thinking about like the confidence underpin and in your book, something that kind of jumped out was, you know, your section on finding your values and knowing your needs. I feel like it's really hard to find our confidence until you solve that part Absolutely. Yeah, when was it that you really started to kind of lock in to your values as an artist and knowing your needs? Jen?

Emm:

that's a good question because it's evolving, I know, and it's not.

Jen:

It's not like one time and it's done.

Emm:

Yeah, and I don't think it's useful for me to say, like you know, in this, in 2020, I realized what my values were and now I'm good.

Emm:

I think that it's about coming out of the unconscious, about again what's driving the bus right, so we can say all of this stuff like, oh, we, you know kindness is important and and empathy and creativity and honesty, but like if we can challenge ourselves to look at where we're in a deficit with those things and not beat ourselves up because, again, we have so much pressure on ourselves as women to be awesome all the time, but like maybe what could serve you?

Emm:

You know, like I've asked people various times to make a list of their five most important values, and you know they'll make the list and then I'll ask them a few more questions and then later I'll ask them okay, rank those values for a second. Like, just where do you think you are with all of those? And having a way to measure where we are is sometimes helpful because you can look at it on paper and say, oh yeah, like this is really important to me, but I'm actually not spending any time on it then you can make some informed decisions about what you're going to do to help yourself.

Emm:

Really not like help everyone else, help yourself. Move the needle on that value.

Jen:

Had there been values that have surfaced in the last two years that that surprised you, or would you say they're kind of still core and foundational still core and foundational every day is a new opportunity to realize what the heck is going on or not going on right.

Emm:

So for me, I guess the biggest one that has come to me in the last two years is just learning to trust and also to realize that being heard is really important to me. I've mentioned that a few times, but it's kind of remarkable that, like I, would go 25 years as a singer and realize, okay, that's not totally about music or even like creativity, it's really about being heard right.

Jen:

Being heard means what for you?

Emm:

I think it would be that, um, I feel like there has been some space to express myself, right? So I I think we have to take the onus off the other person to receive you in the way that you want to be received. Yeah, because then you know, we're setting ourselves up for some kind of expectation and maybe disappointment, but like just having the space to express. So what does that look like for anyone who's listening? Is that finding a supportive friend? Is that working with your partner so that they can hear you without talking over you? Or is it journaling?

Emm:

And I think even what you're doing, Jen, like with this podcast, you've created an environment that is empowering for people.

Jen:

Well, and as you were talking, talking, I was asking myself that question being heard for me means I'm giving myself time to hear myself.

Emm:

Yeah, because I was running hard for nine years in a startup hard, like we're talking back-to-back meetings no, no space and the dynamic of somewhat of trying to prove myself and that racket doesn't lend any time to really allowing myself to be heard that's so important, what you just brought up, and I think if I wish that I could inspire people to do anything, it's that I wish they, you know, I could inspire people to clear the space so they could have what you're talking about. For me, yeah, you can't clear any space if you can't sleep or if you're having a dysfunctional relationship with your kids or whatever, so you kind of have to trace those breadcrumbs back to like what is actually getting in the way.

Jen:

Yeah, and we all do it like we all have our vices right. My philosophy is, if I can introduce one new practice a month and get good at that one new practice a month and get good at that.

Jen:

So last month it was cold plunging and I was like I'm going to do it for 30 days because I have a great guest and she inspired me so much about the health benefits, and then now I'm layering in the meditation. But this is the goal of just trying to clear some of that way that I was just distracting myself, to be quite honest, and you can't hear anything.

Emm:

Yeah, absolutely, and I think I've set myself up for sure of thinking people have to be perfect. I have to be awesome or at least look like it's going awesomely. But you can do those things like you're talking about, like experiment, and have fun and try out things with with it almost being like a vision for exploration. Yeah, let's just talk about your book. How easy or difficult was it for you to write this book? It was exciting and I think I was propelled by the idea of having a book, but it was very difficult to get it right Again, that perfectionism so I stopped and started it three times. But having Michael who is my he's, I got a husband out of my book deal.

Emm:

I just want to say that that's amazing Michael Holmes, who's my partner, and he is an editor at ECW, the company that published my book. For myself and for so many other people, having a guide who is incredibly inspiring and really tuned into, like helping you tell your actual story, is so important. Then you have a almost like a partner in the whole process, as someone waiting to read your next chapter. So again like collaboration, right, not just doing it all on your own, which is so hard. I think is really important.

Jen:

For you telling your story, like, like, were there just common pitfalls in that? Was it like, oh, is this that great? Like, what? What's the robber of the freedom of telling the story? Yeah, we all do that, don't we? Yes, we do. I see this with almost every guest who comes on.

Emm:

Maybe it's a lack of celebration, because that's something I see in my coaching. Is that a lot of forward motion? People can take some steps and make big realizations, but there's not a lot of acknowledgement about the things that we do, because it feels maybe selfish. What is?

Jen:

it for you. I think there's a disqualifying and a diminishing natural pattern that I still have to work through, and I believe that the root cause is that it wasn't safe for me to shine bright and freely, without jealousy or repercussions around me. So I'll almost get to the self-criticism as a way to cope. It's not as strong as it used to be, but it's still always there. And then I think, maybe if I'm too celebratory of where things are at, and then what if it goes away? Maybe?

Jen:

that will be my next month. Put celebration into the mix. Yeah, totally. Put celebration into the mix? Yeah, totally, as you are kind of in a new season for yourself here. Like what's going to be on the horizon for you More music coaching, Like what's the vision forward for you?

Emm:

I'm really okay with being in transition right now. Yeah, I'm going back to school. I'm going to study psychological science. I have a new band with my partner that we're working on. We've got maybe two or three songs done and then just finding a path to help other people through some of the things that we've been talking about Really working on presence and voice and trying to share those ideas a little more widely. So I'm in the process of developing a course.

Jen:

And what can people expect from the course?

Emm:

Well, I noticed that when I'm teaching people, when we're doing vocal training, everyone is different, so everyone's got their own unique challenges, their own story, their own insecurities, but the process is very similar to move people forward. So what I'm trying to do is create a foundational course that will teach people about exactly what I was talking about breath. Also, there's a whole part of using the voice where we can direct the voice so the sound can move in a certain line, and that's something that is universal, that people inevitably have to learn to do, and then relaxation, and they all work together to create a strong voice.

Jen:

So I'd love to be able to just package that out and have more people learn it Well, it's incredibly important, Like I have literally been integrating all of your wisdom and knowledge for now at least a week.

Jen:

And I'm going to keep on going because it's just that conscious awareness and how quickly we can shift more into that powerful place of being rooted and speaking from that place. And well, listen, I am taking this forward. I am challenging everyone listening to, for all of us, because I'm not a singer, I've never been musically inclined, but I can take these principles forward. I can apply them into my work too. So thank you for being here. Thank you for everything you've just offered us and shared with us. It's been so wonderful.

Emm:

Thank you for what you do and I'm really really honored that you asked.

Jen:

Thank you for joining us. Don't forget to follow us on Instagram and LinkedIn, where we transform the wisdom from our podcast into practical tips, tools and takeaways for your leadership journey. Find us at gritgracepodcast. See you next week.