The Grit & Grace Leadership Podcast

Rising Above: Jessica Snow on Pressure, Perfectionism, and Life's Interruptions

• Jen Kelly • Season 2 • Episode 13

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Join host Jen Kelly as she delves into the remarkable journey of Jessica Snow, a seasoned retail executive with over 15 years of experience leading strategy, merchandising, operations, and corporate development for top consumer brands such as Tim Hortons, Walmart Canada, and Aeroplan. In this episode, we reflect on key lessons and invaluable wisdom on navigating the delicate balance between ambition, pressure, perfectionism, self-care, and vulnerability.

However, it's Jessica's latest venture as co-founder of Be Uninterrupted that truly steals the spotlight. With Be Uninterrupted, Jessica and her team are on a mission to empower women facing career interruptions, providing an inclusive support system for professional women. Whether it's navigating the challenges of family responsibilities or negotiating career transitions, Be Uninterrupted offers actionable advice, vetted information, and a supportive community to help forge an uninterrupted future.

Follow Jessica on LinkedIn: 

  • https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessicasnow5/


Learn more about Be Uninterrupted:

  • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/be-uninterrupted/
  • Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/be_uninterrupted





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Jen:

Joining me today is Jessica Snow, a retail executive with over 15 years of experience leading strategy operations and corporate development for top consumer brands like Tim Hortons, walmart Canada and Aeroplan.

Jessica:

You know you could talk about inequality and women representation at a macro level, but to me it's more the root cause. What is actually? But to me it's more the root cause what is actually challenging the representation in amazing, talented women. But yet you see that drop off.

Jen:

In this episode, jessica and I reflect on crucial lessons, from navigating pressure to overcoming perfectionism. We also delve into her new venture as a co-founder of Be Uninterrupted their mission To raise women up. So career interruptions don't bring them down. Let's dive in. Welcome to the podcast everyone. Jessica, thank you so much for being with us today. It's great to be here. I wanted to launch on the jumping off point of reflecting back over a decade of growth. I think for all of us it's important for us to kind of have snapshots of time when we look back and think about how far we've come. Over the last 10 years you've held Director of Strategy and Development at Aeroplan. You've headed a strategy at Walmart Canada. Most recently you were VP of Retail at Tim Hortons. That a strategy at Walmart Canada. Most recently you're a VP of retail at Tim Hortons. That's on the professional side. I know there's a whole other story on the personal side, but as we kick things off and you think back and look back, what have been some defining moments that you're incredibly proud of?

Jessica:

To be honest, I think it's kind of the woven of both the professional and the personal For me. I've been involved in some incredible opportunities and meeting some great people. On the professional front, at Aeroplan was part of the trilateral agreement with CIBC and TV and Aeroplan, so that was like a case study for Harvard Business School. That in and of itself. At Walmart, you know, driving a three and a half billion dollar transformation and being part of that experience was incredible. And then at Tim Hortons, I think, meeting a lot of the franchisees and the mom and pops that really own the locations and their love for their business and their customers.

Jen:

So as you think about that chapter and looking back, how has your leadership perspective evolved, especially kind of going from director role all the way through to VP and holding multiple positions? How have you evolved in your perspective?

Jessica:

You know, being a director, I was a people leader and then, as you get into more of the VP role, you're now a leader of people leaders.

Jessica:

Yes, earlier on I was focused on recruitment. Making sure that the team and the individual team member is comfortable is rocking and rolling on their scope of work. As I got more experience as a leader, all of that onboarding really, you know, is a big focus of mine. The other one also is on kind of the back end. So when I have a team member saying to me, you know I'm kind of outgrowing this role and you know it's in my best interest to make sure that that individual continues to grow and stay within the organization. So constantly looking for new opportunities and setting them up If they're not a good fit or, you know, or the company isn't for them, making sure that their exit is also just as good as their recruitment. I've heard a lot of stories around some exits and some are a little bit, I'd say, more harsh than they need to be. I've actually exited, you know, some employees with a very graceful soft landing and we're still in touch. I think that's really something to be mindful of.

Jen:

Within the onboarding, would you be referencing more like senior leaders within the organization and, if so, how long should we be thinking about that process to do it well?

Jessica:

So there's always the infamous question what's your 30, 60, 90 day plan? And, as an executive, it's really about you know, influencing and whatever the goals of your team are, to make sure that you can interact and really get your team in a place of success. It's important, as you know my expectations from my coach or boss and vice versa, where I would make sure that someone on my team who's been onboarded, regardless of the level, has that grace period, keeping in mind that, yes, they are new and they could be talking a different language than what the company is used to. And so it's really about, kind of the integration period.

Jen:

Especially when you hire people who doubt do have so much experience. Right, you're just assuming that, hey, we got the all-star from X, y and Z company. Now they're here. Hooray, here we go, oh yeah. So, as you think back to who you've been, what wisdom would you impart on your younger self?

Jessica:

Things work out. I would say some things that I planned out came to fruition and other things did not at all, and where I am today is not at all what I I planned in the end, but it's better than what I really have.

Jessica:

You know, having two kids, a daughter and a son, a dog and a husband I never necessarily expected all of that. Ten years ago I just got married to my husband. We were living in downtown Toronto in a condo. We had our dog. I had a lot of flexibility right In terms of time to work. A lot of people were getting married at the time, starting families. I was working a lot of hours and so, yeah, I was. You know, I think the family side of the equation was like I completely underestimated what it meant to have children and what that would really mean. The 30 year old, or, you know, late 20s, version of me was like how is this all going to work? You know, the Jess that was a mom versus the Jess that you know before children. It's just different. It's a different version of you that I never expected.

Jen:

So I wanted to dive into the topic of perfectionism. Let's start with how has it challenged you as a leader?

Jessica:

I think it really helped me earlier in my career Because I had the time right to set a really high bar and expectation and the attention to detail. As you get more senior you almost have to balance out from a perfectionism standpoint what's good enough.

Jen:

Mm-hmm.

Jessica:

And is my expectation and the team's aligned. And I make a point of, you know, aligning with expectations, including the audience that I'm trying to influence, the people around me, my team members. This is kind of what the expectations of what we're trying to deliver on, and there's just a balance of stress and managing time and prioritization.

Jen:

As team members are working through projects proposals, there's iteration and the version that you see is not always the complete version, but you had a very helpful way of communicating along the way way of communicating along the way.

Jessica:

I always start the meeting or whenever I'm reviewing something, with what percentage version of the solution is this? If someone says the word draft, do I know what's? You know I don't know what their version is, but if I know that it's the 40% version, it gives me a better sense versus the 90% version of where they think the draft is. But if I know that it's the 40% version, it gives me a better sense versus the 90% version of where they think the draft is. I'm okay seeing a rarer version. I'd rather see just a rarer version and then see it evolve. It's something that's actually been quite helpful from a communication standpoint, and then we can also laugh at it. Right, and we know it also opens up the conversation to feedback. Yeah, if we're working on the 40%, then we know that there's holes and that the team member doesn't feel as defensive versus oh, this is the 90%.

Jen:

And how have you gone about managing the internal pressure you put on yourself and not transferring that stress down to your team?

Jessica:

To me I always think about. You know, first, principles of there's three different sources of pressure. That at least the way I think about it. I break it down into threes as a former consultant. There's time pressure, financial pressure, and then there's capability. There's time pressure, financial pressure, and then there's capability. And so the question always is is what is driving that stress and anxiety and saying, okay, well, how do we solve for it? I think if it's a financial pressure meaning you know things are getting out of budget that's, in my opinion, kind of the easiest. Yeah, I would say capability gaps are much harder, because you can't just fix them right away. You need to figure out who on the team, or do we need to bring in outside help? How does this all work? I think the biggest one that we're all challenged with is time. Yeah, and so that's really when critical prioritization needs to happen.

Jessica:

I've worked in both environments where I've had amazing bosses and I've had bosses that are less supportive. For me, it's important in both situations to over-communicate and being able to have that communication. But, yeah, no, sometimes it's hard to insulate. You know the pressures that you're getting down, especially from the board, from C-suite, from international, and not let your team really know about it. Some self-care practices are really important. You know, center yourself a lot of stuff that I never thought I would have time for, but it's almost like for a leader. Your mental strength is is really important.

Jen:

Couldn't agree more. We talk a lot about this on the podcast, with wellness practices, cold punch therapy, sleep and good nutrition, so once again, it's the rolling theme that's coming through. How do you see the skill of vulnerability in the mix here?

Jessica:

I think if you start showing some vulnerability as a leader I don't know everything.

Jen:

Sometimes you don't know the answers vulnerable, authentic, and that's kind of my hope with the podcast too, and I've gotten a lot of feedback from people saying just having women share their stories this way is almost dismantling you know some facades of having it all together all the time. So we're going to jump forward here in it, because I wanted to talk about the vision forward. Where do you think we need to go as it relates to having representation and equality for women in the next 10 years ahead? Where does the work lie?

Jessica:

In Canada we are seeing stats climb, which is great. They're just not there yet. So, for example, one in three are now a female, which is great to see. I think some of the challenges we still see are pay inequality like 80 cents to the dollar in some cases for the exact same rule. You know you could talk about inequality and women representation at a macro level and we can talk about the impact and something like it'll take still like about 150, 200 years to get to a certain level of pay equality. But to me it's more the root cause. And what are we doing about the root cause? One woman at a time to say what is actually challenging the representation in mid management. And then senior level women, where you have amazing talented women, top of the class marks coming out of school, but yet you see that drop off still.

Jen:

Like where do you think the real issues lie?

Jessica:

There's so many examples where there's life interruptions, things such as what happens, god forbid, someone in her family gets sick, an aging parent as she gets a little bit older, now starting a family what does that look like? She's now going on mat leave. Well, in Canada it's depending on the province you're in anywhere between 12 to 18 months that you could be out of work because you have the privilege of taking care of a newborn, and this is something that you're going through. These aren't things that your male counterparts, who are equally as intelligent and all the things that I just mentioned, have to kind of manage through right. And so then, all of a sudden, they had that 12, 18 months from a mat leave, and I've had, literally in the last three months, two conversations with two women coming back from a mat leave. One didn't end up coming back because she got let go, and another one was coming back but she didn't even know what role she'd be coming back to.

Jessica:

So I think that there's just vetted lived experience and also helping them cross the path. You know, when it comes to negotiations, you do have some leverage. I didn't know that. And what labor lawyer am I supposed to, you know, get? So you start calling your friends, but they're in your peer group too, so unless they have an older sister or a mother or someone, a mentor that can help them, you're kind of like the blind leading the blind.

Jen:

I wanted to underscore so in all of this discovery, as you've been talking to him, and you and your co-founder have founded an amazing organization called Be Uninterrupted. To address exactly these moments and just to summarize some like top line moments that interrupt most women, can you just give us maybe like the top 10?

Jessica:

The top one is family and health issues mental health, work-life balance with young families, job loss interestingly, job promotion. How so, though? So sometimes job promotion can mean you go from a doer to a manager, especially if it's an internal promotion, not just like going to a different company. Suddenly, your peers are now reporting into you. There's a little bit of social pressure that you would need that you just want to navigate.

Jen:

Yeah.

Jessica:

And you want to make sure that you're set up for success before you accept that promotion, and some of the safeguards are in place for you that you'd want to make sure of. Or I've seen it where there's a promotion because of layoffs. So I know a very senior woman who not only is she now running supply chain, she's also now running merchandising and buying as well, all under the same portfolio, consolidation of roles and all of the responsibilities that come with that.

Jen:

The goal and the mission for Be Uninterrupted as you think about the next 10 years and the vision where you would imagine you can really impact change.

Jessica:

I can't wait until the day where women have 24-7 access to vetted, actionable advice at the moments that matter. Yeah, coming home and having a bad conversation with your boss what do I? Do you get that information, whether it's enabled by AI or human connection, where it's phone a friend or a mentor?

Jessica:

That's really what we're building is this ecosystem of organizations and women coming together and sharing information gives you confidence now to say, okay, I know what good looks like, even to the point of referrals. So not only just, oh, here's a three-step plan, but no, here's actually three labor lawyers that you can consider that some of our members have used vouched for. Our mission is to forge the future for uninterrupted female success, one woman at a time.

Jen:

And we're going to link your information in the show notes. I can't thank you enough for giving us such a peek into your past and your growth and, more importantly, the vision forward, and I encourage people who feel called to really reach out and check out, be Uninterrupted. So thank you for being here.

Jessica:

Thank you so much for having me. It's been a pleasure.

Jen:

Thank you for joining us. Don't forget to follow us on Instagram and LinkedIn, where we transform the wisdom from our podcast into practical tips, tools and takeaways for your leadership journey. Find us at gritgracepodcast. See you next week.