The Grit & Grace Leadership Podcast

Earn What You're Worth: Negotiating Beyond Numbers with Jocelyn Yacoub

• Jen Kelly • Season 1 • Episode 3

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Discover how to turn the tide in your favour during salary negotiations with our inspiring guest, Jocelyn Yacoub, founder and CEO of Yacoub Elite Search. Join us as she dissects the art of negotiation, sharing her personal journey from a state of naiveté to becoming a force to be reckoned with. In 1997, Jocelyn set out to disrupt the headhunting industry by flipping the model and becoming an agent to the talent, earning her the nickname 'the Jerry Maguire of headhunting.'

In this episode, Jocelyn reveals the characteristics that set top performers apart and provides practical advice on developing these traits. Throughout our discussion, she shares valuable insights on the importance of self-awareness when seeking new opportunities and the powerful role of charisma and leadership presence in career advancement.

So, come join us on this enlightening journey of personal and professional growth, as we together explore new horizons in leadership.

Follow Jocelyn and the Yacoub Elite Search team

https://yacoubelite.com/our-people/

https://www.linkedin.com/company/yacoub-elite-search/


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Speaker 1:

On the Grit and Grace podcast, we shine the spotlight on the stories behind the leader Money negotiation. Who's great at it, who's not?

Speaker 2:

That question comes up all the time how much money do you think I am worth?

Speaker 1:

Joining us today is Jocelyn Yacoub, the trailblazing CEO behind Yacoub Elite Search. In 1997, she flipped the model on headhunting by acting as the agent to the talent. In this episode we explore the hot topic of salary negotiation and the art of leadership. Presence Plus, jocelyn offers her frank and honest take on a critical topic. Are you truly ready for that promotion and level up? Get ready for an action-packed conversation. Let's dive in. I was thinking about how you've paved the way for so many top performers and leaders. You've been in business for 25 years. Can you talk a little bit on your own personal stamina? You as a leader, a CEO, a founder? What if you had to do in your life to sustain this business and reinvent yourself and to keep the passion alive?

Speaker 2:

Paving the way, so I like how you framed that. I was young, I was very naive. I decided that I wanted to flip the model of what the executive search world is all about, so I naturally became curious about how people become top performers In any job that you do. My first job was being a cashier. How can you be a better cashier than your friend next door?

Speaker 1:

Wherever you are right, Whatever role you're in.

Speaker 2:

Whatever role you're in, I believe that because I was naive and I didn't know what it takes to start your own business, many people have asked me had I known what I know today, 25 years ago, what I have done this? Absolutely not.

Speaker 1:

Naiveness is a good thing for entrepreneurs.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, 100%, and I always knew I was an entrepreneur. I tell people I was very unemployable at a young age because I was just overly creative. I was ambitious, I wanted to make my own rules, and you can't do that in a large corporate environment. And I think that's really what motivated me to start my own business at a very young age, because I needed to change the rules about what headhunting was all about. And headhunting is you get a call and you're the candidate. So Jen gets the call and I'm trying to sell you a job and I'm thinking you don't even know Jen, so how can you sell her a job? You know that this is the right job for her. So that was the first thing that the flaw in the system.

Speaker 2:

The flaw in the system and secondly, at the time it's a commission based environment. It was very sales focused, so the firm that I was recruiting at you were on commission, so you only got paid if Jen got the job, and so that was a huge flaw in the system, for sure, and I quickly became really good at getting people excited and really good at helping people figure out that there could be better opportunities for them than where they are today. So that's really how my early stages in my career started, because when I flip the model and they say, like, how did you flip the model? I decided to act as the agent to the talent.

Speaker 2:

Many called me the Jerry Maguire of the search world at an early stage, because if you remember the movie Jerry Maguire, tom Cruise did not have a client, right, and if he got that guy, yeah, show me the money. Then he was going to become famous. So it's, it's exactly what happened to me. That really tells you how old I am. But when that, most people listening will relate to the Jerry Maguire movie, right, and that movie taught me so much about what it's like to feel vulnerable, yeah, what it's like to be scared, and the pressure that you're in to make sure that your talent gets the right job, and I think that that played a huge role in the foundation of how I decided to create my new business.

Speaker 1:

As you're talking about all that and I'm just thinking about who might be listening right now how do you see top talent, like, how do you know you are speaking to somebody with a high potential in them? Like, what do you see? This is your gift, you can see it in people, you can spot it. What is it that you see in them?

Speaker 2:

Talent, to me, is measured by proven success. Right, right.

Speaker 1:

Because you can. You can see patterns in people's history 100 percent Right.

Speaker 2:

My mother always taught me tell me who your friends are and I'll tell you who you are Right, and that played a big role in me developing my relationships, because great people surround themselves with great people most of the time and you become part of that community, right? So really getting to know people and engaging conversations is something that I'm still working on. It took me 25 years to perfect. What types of questions are you asking people? Right To find out what you need to know?

Speaker 1:

I have to assume that because of that, you get to see where people fall short in certain skills and or excel in other skills, and I kind of wanted to talk about a few major components where leaders really either hit the mark or miss the mark on leadership and, specifically, negotiation.

Speaker 2:

Negotiation is an art. Yeah, it's a skill. It's. It's something, that it's a process in your life. Early years of negotiation are usually terrible. I was a terrible negotiator and I started my business because the first thing people wanted me to do was discount my rate and I felt like I needed to because I was just starting off right. Right, so that can parlay into.

Speaker 2:

Early in your career. You don't really have a lot of negotiation power because you're very new at what you do. Your negotiation power is all about the confidence that you have that you're the best at what you do, because once you have that, you're going to show up differently in an interview, you're going to show up differently in conversations, and the best negotiating power is that you don't have to leave where you are today. So there's two parts. So I'm going to. The first part is you're being headhunted. You're happy where you are.

Speaker 2:

It's my role as your agent to find what I call is your wound, and that's my patented secret recipe to what I do is. I believe everybody has a wound and it's my job to figure out what that is. And depending on how big your wound is is depending on how much negotiation power that you have. So most of the time, I'm dealing with top talent who are excelling at what they do, and it's my role to move them from one place to another, which means that they're going to be looking for a major difference, financially and lifestyle wise, and, most importantly, jen, I think now more than ever, people's values cannot be compromised. And once you have those three things figured out, how much money do you think I am worth? That's that question comes up all the time. Yeah, so to go back to the negotiating power, I coach people for a living, naturally, and the more confidence that you have, and I motivate people, and especially women, because women are known to be the worst negotiators and I don't allow that. It's. Negotiating should not be a gender.

Speaker 1:

It is all rooted in their own personal value and sense of words. Okay, so that's the wobbliness If I have a wound where I'm not valuing some part of myself and it's that leaves me more vulnerable to not being a strong negotiator Is that what you say?

Speaker 2:

Yes.

Speaker 1:

Yes, right, yes.

Speaker 2:

How does it show up? It shows up in your conversations, it shows up in your facial expressions, it shows up in your ability not to feel that you are confident enough about a certain wound that you may have Right, and the wound could be like I don't feel like my current leader today is teaching me anything Right and I'm looking for a much more inspiring leader, and that's the number one reason why people leave their jobs it's the leader that they work for, and I and I've become a leader expert at people expert and I stress to everyone If you're not working for the right leader, you will not feel inspired or successful. So my role has now become more of connecting the right leaders together, more so than being a headhunter. And you know, you asked me that at the very beginning, like how do you know that this person is a top performer? It's an obvious. It's an obvious because a top performer achieves results. A top performer can quantify their results as much as they qualify for them.

Speaker 2:

A top performer can share success stories. A top performer can provide the new employer with reasons why they need to be hired, and that parlays into their negotiating power, right? So if I was to sum this up, the best negotiating power that a candidate would have is that they're so confident about their abilities to do the job that the salary that they require is a must have period. But it is very important to know your worth, yes, to believe in your worth.

Speaker 1:

I think it's even even that practice of those tips, of that script that you just gave, is like you should be rehearsed and being able to know your results per your value, like you could give that talk at a cocktail party 100%, even at a cocktail party or a networking event or, you know, at any event where you're meeting somebody new.

Speaker 2:

When they ask you, what do you do? How do you respond?

Speaker 1:

And how prepared are you?

Speaker 2:

and how prepared are you to respond to that?

Speaker 1:

To respond to that in a way that services your value and your confidence and your worth in the moment. Right, it's kind of leading me to the next thing that I wanted to talk about, which is this kind of mysterious box that we call executive presence. And you know, I've worked for leaders the minute they walk into a room mail or female you just know there's a presence, there's a quality to them. What do you see in today's landscape with people who have strong executive presence? What qualities are they demonstrating?

Speaker 2:

having the presence to command a room, to be heard, to have something to say that others will want to hear, and to be able to navigate through a group of people. So there's a whole list of things. On executive presence, I'm happy to give tips all the time, but most importantly is how are you received and and who is your audience and how did they feel after they met you? So oftentimes we'll get feedback from from a meeting that occurred and anyone that's represented by Yaku. You'll never hear they didn't have executive presence because they wouldn't be presented if they did not. Right, so that's the magic, right? So, however, they could feedback as they weren't confident in their answers. And that goes back to your point. Yeah, like, be prepared to validate why you are a top performer.

Speaker 1:

I think that also in you know what I just know for myself and other leaders that I admire, you have to cultivate that on the inside and have that kind of core steadiness.

Speaker 2:

I don't have the stats, but I can tell you that most top performers are athletes. Having that team sport to off balance your day to day corporate life is really, really, really crucial, and those that are not into sports have to be passionate about something. So I think I think to your point. Working on yourself requires a lot, and it's it's mental health month awareness. I just I just did a very simple post. Like you need to take care of your mind as much as you take care of your bodies, and that's really, really crucial. I think that plays a huge role in what leaders have to do to show up for other people, for other people, because are you inspired?

Speaker 1:

And it's a habit, and a mindful habit, and it's easy to be, you know, burnt out, overworked, but it's on us to turn it around. Absolutely yeah, lead a better life. The last piece I wanted to talk about do you ever see people chasing the role for the wrong reason? Always, and how? Should people ask themselves the question of why am I wanting this? Like what could be some advice that people can just take away to know do I want to have this role or do I want to prove that I can have this role?

Speaker 2:

Like chasing the role for the wrong reasons is probably happening more in organizations these days than it should be. Because of people's ambition, because of people's ego, because everyone is so title-driven, so that would be the wrong reason, right? Of course, chasing the job that you want has to come with a lot of work, and how are you going to be successful in that next role? How?

Speaker 1:

do people know that they're doing it for the right reasons? It should be. That body of work inspires me. I could put my own kind of stamp on that strategically or I think I could solve the problem for the company Like. That's how I look at it.

Speaker 2:

Sadly, I see too much in my world. But how are you being received in that role? So does the CEO of the company think that you should have your boss's job? Because you're going to have to report to him directly or her, if you do get that job? And so it's really about understanding. I might want the next job and I might think I'm ready for the next job, but am I the right person for that leader? And that's huge, right. So whenever the leader changes, everything changes. You might be ready for the next level, you might feel like you're ready for the next level, but as a next level you right.

Speaker 2:

So it takes a lot of self-awareness, but it takes a lot of understanding from the leaders around you or the clients around you. And in my firm, for example, my juniors might want to be frontline with the clients, but do the clients want to work with them directly? Period, right. So how are you received in a large organization? The VP wants to become an executive vice president, but then they're sitting at the table with the board members. How are they received? So there's a lot of discovery around that.

Speaker 1:

Well, I think that perspective brings a lot of perspective to anyone listening to this. I don't know people think of it.

Speaker 2:

I hope so. Yeah, I think it. I mean, I just learned a lot listening.

Speaker 1:

I am so inspired by what you've done, how you've opened doors for so many people and how you care deeply about people's progress and growth and you're doing remarkable things. Thank you so much for joining.

Speaker 2:

Thank you for having me. I do this naturally. I love to share, I love to inspire others. I love. I would love it if someone could learn a lesson that took me 10 years to learn just by listening. And you have to live and learn. Yeah, you know, there are no limits to what you can do, but give yourself time. Absolutely Amazing.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so let's finish it off on mastery. Yes, I love it. I love mastery you are too.

Speaker 2:

Thank you for having me here today. It's been so much fun.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for joining us. Don't forget to follow us on Instagram and LinkedIn, where we transform the wisdom from our podcast into practical tips, tools and takeaways for your leadership journey. Find us at gritgracepodcast. See you next week.